(no subject)

[hellomajortom]

Tom had heard from his wife about the chaos the night before. It wasn't surprising to him. He'd seen some crazy things at Ziggy's concerts; fainting, screaming, people being liberated from constraints and throwing off their clothes and God might only know what he missed in the crowds and papers. With the addition of angels, immortals, telepaths, and who knows what else something was bound to go awry. That it was Ziggy and one of his friends was a worry but also well within Tom's experience too.

When he woke up to a text from the twins asking to come and talk to him, he happily invited one or both of them to come to the house in the afternoon. It was the quiet time in the house. Ziggy would be elsewhere and Tommy would have gone out for his usual afternoon wanderings. It left Aletayria in the gardens and Tom with little to do.

He was making some tea to relax because he could imagine the topic that would be at hand when one or both of them arrived.

Comments

[itmeanstruth]

Minoru had told his brother he’d be all right by himself, but Isamu insisted on coming along: ‘I made a promise to support you as you have always supported me. I may not be able to feel what you are feeling, but you do not have to feel it alone.’

Which was why both Uchiwa brothers were gracing the Stardust house doorstep during the mid-afternoon. (And not any earlier - god what a night it had been...)

[hellomajortom]

Tom and Aletayria live in what most humans would call a tiny house with a large greenhouse attached to the back that is larger than the house itself.

The cats tell him that there is someone outside long before they make it to the porch. It is so accurate that he is opens the door just as they step on the porch. Around Tom's feet are several cats including a large orange tabby. There are 12 cats in total, several with wings, and one raccoon that Tom is still surly about.

"Come in." He smiles at them with sympathy. This isn't easy and he knows it but at least he can offer more guidance than he had in the situation. "Would you like some tea?"

[itmeanstruth]

“Please.” Minoru nodded immediately.

“Yes, and thank you for taking the time to speak with us.” Isamu agreed. “Last night was, dare I say, quite the experience.”

“That’s an understatement, bro. I was high as a kite.” Minoru sighed, bending down to pet a cat. Truth be told, he still felt like he’d been run over by a starship. “Ziggy told me it was going to be more intense than just talking with him. I didn’t think it was going be like that...”

[hellomajortom]

"I'm drink a Anthean herbal tea blended with chamomile. It's safe for humans but the flavor isn't human." Tom wasn't always sure how to describe the experience of Anthean foods to others, not human. He motions toward the couch and two soft reading chairs in the living room for them to sit.

"I've been to most of his concerts. An argument is tame compared to some of what I've seen." He mentioned it with the hopes that I might relax them. Thanks to the open plan of the house he can easily get the pot of tea and cups without breaking the conversation.

"I don't think anyone is ready for his emotions." Tom confirms while walking over with the pot and cups which he sets on the table. "The mix of Anthean mental strength and human impulses are a lot to deal with, even for Ziggy sometimes."

He is sympathetic but honest and feels this will be how most of this conversation will continue. Pouring the tea, Tom is prepared to let them run the conversation and the direction it goes. The tea is not citrus but has the same sour profile that is toned down by the sweetness of the flowers.

[itmeanstruth]

The twins took their seats, and graciously accepted the tea when it was offered.

“It wasn’t an argument. Well, it was. But that wasn’t the whole problem.” Minoru tried to explain. “The problem is what caused the argument. Me. And my feelings.”

He glanced at Ismau, who nodded silently, providing encouragement to continue.

“When I first met Ziggy, I felt... something I’ve never felt before. Not for anybody. This warmth whenever I was in his presence. I felt something like it when we brought Ziggy here, and I first met your wife, but her’s was calm and serene. And Tommy, his uncle, he’s like a rock... The feelings are nice. Maybe even romantic, I guess, in a way. I don’t know...”

Clearly, Minoru had some kind of affection for Ziggy. Tom witnessed it.

“And the energy of the concert, it made me want to be around him even more. I wanted to feel it, in here.” Minoru pointed to his head.

“And as Mister Newton eloquently mentioned to me once you two had left for the parking lot, Ziggy would rather have felt it somewhere else.”

“He said I was like everybody else. I was just using him to get what I want and didn’t care at all about what he wanted. If just being around him feels good... and just having that feeling means I’m taking advantage of him... how can I even call myself his friend? It’s not fair to him. He doesn’t deserve that!” Minoru sighed. “That’s why I need your help. I care about him and I don’t want to keep hurting him.”

[hellomajortom]

Tom nods to his assessment. "Antheans use their mental abilities to replace facial expressions. You've only met those who have lived with humans and picked up some of our manners. In their own culture physical, emotional, and mental contact are part of communication."

Tom isn't saying anything about his thoughts on what happened just giving the boys background on what was going on in their presence.


"Wait." Tom is listening to descriptions and self blame but he needs more information. "What exactly happened? Ziggy hasn't wanted to talk about it. What lead up to the argument?"

[itmeanstruth]

“Right before it?” Minoru hid a blush behind a cup of tea, for at least a few seconds anyway. “...I went to give him a massage. I think I rubbed his back for about three seconds before he pushed me away... and pointed out his... erection.”

“I really did hope he wasn’t planning on a happy ending, to use the colloquial term.”

“He said I was constantly pushing him away. I said his kisses felt like natto... He said I couldn’t just flip off the switches I didn’t like. I said he couldn’t just flip on the switches he liked... I even tried to kiss him, I thought it might help. But when I felt him feel like he just wanted to fade away... I... I panicked...”

Truth be told, he didn’t think the kisses would have felt so disgusting if all of his senses weren’t cranked up to 11. Ziggy was trying to be chaste about it. But the aura of that party amplified everything - good and bad.

[hellomajortom]

Tom was catching up quickly to the situation. "The gist of the situation is that you were looking to feel his emotions and by the same account he would feel that you wanted to experience them, then took someone attracted to you to the back seat of my car to rub your hands over him and he got aroused and hard which upset both of you?"

When you have Ziggy Stardust for a child there's not an iota of shame left when it comes to mentioning anything about sex or sexuality. Tom shook his head. "I'm going to assume you don't engage in sex acts or you're a virgin who isn't ready?"

While the words are on the crass side there's no judgement to how they're spoken. Tom is really just trying to understand the flow of the evening around what happened. There's a sigh and a pause. "You told him no and then kissed an upset and aroused person you don't want to have sex with thinking that would help them feel...better? less aroused?"

CHRIST! Now the blow up from Ziggy and the reluctance to talk made sense. He doesn't know these two as well as his own child.

"That's a lot of hot and cold in a hurry." he mentions and then nods with furrowed brows. "I think what you felt at the end might be the equivalent of a human feeling bad and wanting to be small or to disappear?"

[itmeanstruth]

Minoru hesitantly shook his head. “Both? I... it’s gross... to me. Always has been. But it never mattered before. I’ve never... well...”

He glanced over at Isamu, desperate for the words to explain this situation.

“When he indicated that the feeling of Anthean empathy aroused new emotions he never previously felt, he was not exaggerating. I used to think he was simply oblivious, and perhaps that is true some of the time.”

“Hey!”

“That is an accurate statement. Ziggy flirted with you for a week before you even had an inkling that he was attracted to you.” He added, and Minoru couldn’t exactly argue with the truth. Isamu turned back to Tom. “My brother was blatantly asexual long before either of us knew a word to describe the orientation. Attraction, in any form, is at best an alien emotion. No pun intended, sir.”

“I’d never even kissed anybody. You know, that way.” He confessed, feeling quite ashamed now given Tom’s audible sigh. “Ziggy was so angry that I didn’t like it, so I... I tried to do it back to him... show him I could... at least... maybe TRY to like it...”

He was softer as he added, “the last time I felt feelings like that from him... well... you were there...”

[hellomajortom]

Tom listens quietly, just sipping his tea as they explain. However, he's focused and thinking about what they're saying.

"I've never known Ziggy to get angry over someone else's choices about themselves. I think there's something else going on but Ziggy hasn't been very talkative about it." Tom admits. However, he can hazard some guesses about the situation.

"I'm not sure making it look like you will do things that you probably don't want to is the right message. Hell, if I was turned on and someone tried to kiss on me but I knew they didn't physically want me I might get pissed too."

Tom could see the miscommunication and the fact that both of these kids might not have much sexual experience. Tom sighs and sets down his cup. "I think I understand the comments about the fans and you though. You said you wanted or was asking for his emotions because you wanted to connect but you're also very unwilling to connect the way he wants to."

Tom rubbed his forehead with his thumbs and forefingers. "You're from a different Earth and can't know but his life isn't that good for his mental health. He's always got people and fans wanting to bask in his presence, touch him, kiss him, even fuck him just to say they did. It's like his presence is a trophy. I know he's lonely and doesn't get what he needs. I suspect your desire to have his emotional presence while rejecting his physical one brought up some bad memories for him."

Tom is getting a handle on what might be happening but what advice to give, he's not so sure yet. "That is only the sexual miscommunication, culturally there might be other issues. I only spent a small portion of his life with him. Ziggy was mostly raised with Anthean standards of interaction. You might need a crash course to manage better. Especially, now that there are two hybrid kids here and the other one is just as wild."

[itmeanstruth]

Technically Isamu had at least a handful of trysts with lab partners while at University. However, nothing could have prepared him for helping Minoru figure any of this out.

“That’s why I came here... I don’t want to feel this...” he stumbled over trying to describe it, “this... craving for connection when I’m around him. He’s not a drug, he’s a person. You’re human and not out of your mind, how do I make it stop?!”

[hellomajortom]

"We crave connections with other humans too. It doesn't mean we're using them like a drug necessarily." Tom feels like this may be throwing the baby out with the bath water. "It sounds like you need boundaries for your connection. I'm not sure you know what you want. Until you do, he can't know how to behave except go with his wants."

"I haven't made it stop. I'm connected to my wife constantly." Tom knows that isn't the relationship here so it probably isn't the most helpful answer. "In general, I define my relationships and accept that the emotions, mental connection and physical contact are part of being around their species." Tom laughs quietly at his own thoughts. "It doesn't mean you have to let someone touch you like you don't want but you also can't tell them to shut up because you don't like parts of their communication."

Tom pours himself more tea. "The first thing you have to answer is what relationship do you want with him. He's polyamorous and polyromantic so the restrictions are mostly going to be from your side of things."

[itmeanstruth]

Minoru lowered his head, feeling rather ashamed that he was apparently overdue for a very important talk that, until now, no one ever had any reason to have with him.

“Minoru, it is perfectly all right to feel an attraction to someone or something. It does not need to be sexual attraction or even lead to sex. I have admired many of my peers in various ways. Dare I say it’s even natural to have conflicting emotions over someone. I remember countless times you reminded me of this while I was dating Hideki.”

“She was almost a female ME.”

“I honestly do not know what I was thinking...” he laughed softly. “But the point remains, talking through your wants can help you identify them. We can both assist with questions if you find yourself stuck.”

Minoru agreed, and with very little further prompting, answered, “well... I want a kind of relationship where it’s okay to come up to each other and just pull each other into a big hug. Completely hands on, but just... not in any of the sexual places? And no exchanging of bodily fluids?”

Being thrown up on, as disgusting as it was, was easier to deal with than having someone plant kisses on him. But at the time, he had far more important things on his mind than romantic attraction.

“Like, I just... want to enjoy his company, hear him go on and on about his crazy adventures, be someone he can come to and open up when he needs to talk... and I say that now, honestly, I mean every word! But when I’m around him, it’s like I just want to cuddle with him for some reason.”

[hellomajortom]

Tom didn't interrupt as they talked it over but he couldn't help the chuckle at the term 'sexual places'.

"I guarantee you've already touched him in sexual places without knowing it. He's usually used to humans not knowing because he has to hide it but I've never seen him deal with it when it's someone he wants, that doesn't want him."

Tom goes quiet for a moment because he has to wonder how much of any of this he has the right to say. In the end he figures Ziggy would understand his reasoning. "I think you need to refrain from thinking about physical contact from an alien as meaning the same thing it does to a human. A good example of this is that my wife has no nipples and no breasts. You could touch her chest all day and humans would think it's inappropriate but she wouldn't even understand why. The body part isn't there. Yet, there are certain ways of touching her hands that you shouldn't do because that is sexual."

Tom knew this was going to be the difficult part. It had taken him a long time to work through all of this alone. All he could do is give the boy a look of sympathy while Tom processed this all to try and give the kid as much as he might need to move forward.

"It sounds like you want to be more like brothers, sort of. You're going to have to tell him this, but you may have to accept that brother has different types of contact involved for an alien." Tom sighs collecting his words. "I know Ziggy kisses everyone, mostly on the cheeks and the shoulders. Antheans, as a species, don't kiss at all. I haven't asked Ziggy why he kisses people but you may find that they aren't as sexual as a human might think of them."

"It's all the more difficult because Ziggy is a species of one, well there are three now, but more or less there aren't others like him. Human and Anthean are jumbled for him. You're going to have to step back and ask him what gestures match what you want the relationship to be. You might find things you think are ok don't mean the same to him."

Tom felt like none of that was helpful and adds. "I can teach you some of the Anthean greetings and common things for families but he doesn't use all of them. He uses a lot of human gestures too."

[itmeanstruth]

Minoru cringed slightly when Tom mentioned just a couple of the basic differences in private parts. He and Ziggy had grabbed hands to scamper out of the bar. Minoru had no idea that was roughly the equivalent of groping him. Who knew what rubbing his back might have meant.

On the other hand, Isamu’s head shot up when Tom compared the relationship to a brotherhood of sorts and started discussing different gestures.

“Oh! Minoru! In addition to learning appropriate platonic Anthean gestures, you should teach Ziggy what Mama used to do when we were little, back when she tucked us in.”

Minoru looked over at his brother, and couldn’t help but laugh. “The forehead poke?”

“It did not make you squirm in disgust the way a kiss to the forehead often would. I remember that much quite clearly. But I believe Ziggy would appreciate knowing where that gesture comes from - since you did do it to him during the party.”

“I did?”

“You definitely did. And he may have misinterpreted it as rejection.”

[hellomajortom]

Tom is still listening to them but his hands come up to cover and rub his face.

"Are you talking about actually poking an Anthean in the forehead?" Tom suddenly feels like this is a daunting task. "He is sensitive under the enso he paints on his forehead and has weak bones. I'm not sure that's the best answer."

Tom sighs. "I think you need to learn about Anthean biology. He doesn't even sense the world the way we do."

[itmeanstruth]

“Oh...”

“It appears we are ignorant of more than just cultural norms, sir.” Isamu admitted, rubbing the back of his head.

Indeed, Minoru knew an Anthean's bones were hollow, but he wouldn’t have thought that a poke could have possibly caused injury. Granted, last night he also learned that the g-forces of being spun around were just as bad as being in a car...

[hellomajortom]

Tom's sympathy for thier ignorance comes back quickly. "It's a lot to learn."

He can admit that easily. He was still learning. "There are heightened senses involved too. He feels more than any human. I've had some experience with just how increased they are through my connection to Aletayria. I'm not sure there are human words for it but what we might consider a feather light touch is much more to them."

[itmeanstruth]

“I’d very much like to.” Minoru readily insisted. “Learn, I mean...

Isamu nodded as well. “I am also interested.”

He couldn’t hide his curiosity for something that did not appear to be well-documented. There weren’t going to be books for this.

There was something to be said about one day Minoru actually being able to ease some of those tense muscles after a long show, or maybe even help him with physical therapy for his hand. Without essentially groping. Somehow. If that was possible.

“But I also want to learn how to not feel so... high? The concert was amazing, but I had to buy the CD just to hear the songs. The moment he started, everything was a blur... an amazing blur! But a blur.”

[hellomajortom]

"Where do you want to start?" He asks because otherwise the idea is daunting and he might not know what to start with himself.

"At a concert?" Tom shook his head. "There's no avoiding it at one of his shows. I've been to hundreds of them and even I feel a little euphoric after them. Anything you did last night was tame compared to somethings I've seen. I suppose over time it becomes duller but it never goes away as far as I can tell."

[itmeanstruth]

“THAT was tame?!” Minoru held his head in his hands. “It didn’t feel tame.”

“Tame is relative.” Isamu added. “I did not personally feel anything I would have perceived as out of the ordinary, though I observed quite a bit of empathy-induced intoxication.”

He turned to Tom. “Is this something one builds a tolerance to, then?”

“What, I awkwardly curl up next to Ziggy until it feels normal?” Minoru groaned.

“I would have compared it more like a move you practice over and over again until you can land it safely and with precision.” He elaborated. The wheels were visibly turning in Minoru’s head once it was put that way. “So perhaps it would be best to begin with something you can practice. Anthean familial language and gestures. Or what Ziggy would perceive as such. With a brief overview of the romantic and sexual ones - so that you are aware of what to avoid.”

“Okay, yeah! Yeah, that makes sene.”

[hellomajortom]

"No one threw off their clothing, no orgies, no one stormed the stage." Tom shrugs. There were some crazy things he had seen. Tom listens and looks to Isamu. "I assume the lack of effect is because you subdue or hide your own emotions in some way. I wouldn't know for sure but it fits a pattern I've seen."

Tom shook his head. "I've been around hundreds of performances. It's not efficient. Concerts are not the same as everyday life from what I can tell."

All he can do is sigh. "There's nothing you can practice to block it. You just learn to accept and manage it happening. It's more like learning to drive drunk than gaining a tolerance to the alcohol."

He turned his attention to Minoru first. "Are you actually attracted to him and, if you are does he know? That will determine how we go forward." He sighs again wishing he still drank. Maybe that would make this easier. "Antheans communicate through touch. It might help to discuss what you think was sexual in contact you've already had. You don't seem to be uncomfortable with general or platonic physical contact if I've understood. Miscommunications usually go both ways."

[itmeanstruth]

This was going to be hard. As someone who never really experienced attraction, even answering that question was hard.

“I... I guess I am...” He admitted, glancing at his brother. Isamu wisely kept his mouth shut this time. “He knows I’m not interested in sleeping with him, but being attracted... I don’t know what he knows... I’m not even sure what I know.”

In other words, this was not a conversation they’d had. If it had been, he probably would have known about Ziggy’s polyamory much earlier too.

“He teases me a lot, but we both know it’s just teasing. He’s never actually acted on any of it. I didn’t think we’d done anything sexual...” he admitted. It was possible, though, that they had - from Ziggy’s point of view. He wasn’t sure anymore. “The kissing was just... icky?”

With his descriptions, there was clearly a tactile preference. Dry versus wet. Touching, in and of itself, was not a problem.

[hellomajortom]

"You might need to figure that out." Tom says as gently as possible. "It's going to be damned near impossible to start defining a relationship if you don't know what's in it or what you feel about the other person."

Tom was uncertain as they went on talking. It sounded like a lot of assumptions and very little knowledge. "Are you sure you both know? No penetration doesn't preclude something more than friendship especially for a species that can share minds and emotions. I'm not sure it even means no sex. I...."

Tom just clammed up thinking better of saying anything he'd experienced that was explicit instead he turned to the comment about Ickyness.

"Ziggy kisses everyone. He has since he was a child. Antehans thrive on physical contact. If they like you they're going to touch you." Except Tommy. Tommy didn't touch anyone really. Tom wasn't even sure if he liked anyone, though he did occasionally make physical contact with Aletayria. Still that wasn't relevant at the moment. "I had to adjust to the fact that he'll still curl up on my lap and sleep. Something humans don't do after they are a few years old."

"Maybe it would be worth thinking about limiting the kissing, like only as a first greeting or something? Or I don't know convince him kissing your shoulder is better and then there's always clothing in the way? Might be a greeting you could return then without being bothered?" Tom was grasping here between this kid's comfort and the woefully stubborn and impulsive behavior of his own child.

[itmeanstruth]

“I think, for the time being, it would be beneficial to work under the assumption that yes, you are attracted to him.” Isamu supplied. Whether it was helpful or not was yet to be determined. “You may be unsure, but I would wager that is because you have so little personal experience to work with. Not because of a lack of chemistry between you.”

“You really think so?”

“Would you mind if Ziggy curled up on your lap to sleep?” He probed. Minoru’s expression while Tom was talking about it, suggested that he found it cute.

“...no. I wouldn’t.” He even blushed a little.

“Then, yes, I do, in fact, think so.”

And even Minoru had to agree that kissing somewhere that was covered was a fair and fantastic compromise.